It was a relatively light agenda heading into the Eureka Springs City Council meeting on Monday, May 12.

That quickly changed. Council members added three items to the agenda at the beginning of the meeting, including two items involving Eureka Springs Hospital.

Those items ended up taking up a majority of the meeting, which lasted just under two hours, and included allegations of hospital fraud and an unsuccessful attempt to remove hospital commission chair Sandy Martin.

‘MEDICARE FRAUD’

Council member Harry Meyer had “hospital issues” placed on the agenda, telling fellow council members about a recent bill he received for vaccines he received at the hospital.

“I want to premise this, in the last couple of years, I think I’ve been to the hospital three times,” Meyer said. “One time I went up there for a scan that was ordered by my doctor for a heart issue, and I had to pay ahead of time. And then they couldn’t do it because my pacemaker would mess it up. They refunded my money. I got my money back.

“The other times I went, actually it was three more times because I went to get a tetanus shot and two hepatitis shots because I was going down to the sewer plant so much. I got a bill that just stated you owe us $125 and I could not for the life of me understand what that was about.”

Meyer provided council members copies of the bills he received, which showed the total charge for the Oct. 25 visit.

“I sent the bill back and asked for an itemized statement, and they came back with a statement and it showed … I got the tetanus diphtheria and pertussis shot, and their charge was $262.96,” he said. “They call this a commercial insurance payment, but it was, in fact, Medicare Advantage that paid $137.74, and then they sent me a bill for the balance of $125.”

Meyer said he shouldn’t owe anything out of pocket because of his Medicare policy.

“Medicare pays 100 percent of vaccines and that sort of thing,” he said. “In fact, I’ve got the list right here of what Medicare pays. So, I called the billing clerk, Madison [Strahan]. She then told me that I owed because I had Blue Cross Medicare Advantage plan that doesn’t cover 100 percent, and I said that I had just received the shingles vaccine at Walmart and I didn’t get a bill for that, nor have I ever gotten a bill for any vaccines that I’ve gotten at the clinic, the Washington Regional Clinic.

“Because, when a hospital has a contract with Medicare, they agree to accept that amount for that charge. I called Madison, and she just said: ‘Well, you know, you had other things done at the same time,’ which is weird she asked me that. It’s also weird that I only got this extraordinary expensive bill for a tetanus shot, and I never got a bill for the two hepatitis B shots that I got, one the same day as the tetanus. … It just didn’t make sense the way she was trying to send it, and I said: ‘Well, I will contact Medicare and make sure.’ Well, a few days later, I got a bill from a collection agency … that says I owe the hospital commission $125.

“Well, now basically they’re threatening my credit.”

Meyer said the issue can be “construed as Medicare fraud.”

“They’re threatening my credit because if you turn something over to collection that can affect your credit report,” he said. “They’re violating Medicare and their Medicare contract which can be construed as Medicare fraud.

“Now, we’ve sat here and we’ve listened to several people that have come and testified that they were billing for things they were just told to bill, no matter what, bill them. Well, this is a perfect example of that kind of billing.”

Meyer clarified to council members that he was told by Medicare that the cost of the vaccines should have been covered 100 percent.

“In fact, when I called Medicare, they told me to fill out the [form],” Meyer said of accusing the hospital of fraud. “So, I filled out a complaint.”

The most recent issue that has affected him personally is just another in a laundry list of ongoing issues at the facility, Meyer said, leading to him making a motion to remove Martin from the commission.

“There’s more going on up there,” he said. “First of all, maybe they forgot about my bill for the hepatitis, and maybe they didn’t even bill Medicare for it. I don’t know. But, it’s just one thing after another.

“We always hear that everything is going swimmingly up there, but it’s not. And with this, and I wanted to do it at the last meeting, but I’m going to do it at this meeting. I move that we remove Sandy Martin from the commission.”

Council members David Avanzino and Susane Gruning indicated they wanted to discuss the issue further, but since there was no second on Meyer’s motion, the issue failed.

“If you’ll give me that information, Mr. Meyer, I’d like to check into it myself,” Mayor Butch Berry said of the billing issue. “… I’ll follow up with it and see where we are.”

BUDGET QUESTIONS

The council continues to raise concerns and questions about the hospital budget, with members saying what’s on paper doesn’t jive with that is transpiring.

“I’m talking about the hospital budget and spending that does not match up with their current budget,” council member Rachael Moyer said during a discussion with Justin Eichmann, an attorney with the Harrington Miller law firm, who is sharing the city attorney duties with partner Tom Kieklak.

Eichmann said any council member can voice their opinion or concerns about any issue of the hospital, but with a budget workshop between council and the commission being planned, he said he felt the most productive dialogue would be better when both groups are present.

“… One of the things that’s being weighed is, is there proper financial oversight of the money?” Moyer said. “And that leads us to try to decide whether we want to remove commissioners or not, which my understanding is that that is within our power. So I think to summarize that, we’re trying to have a conversation about whether or not we should remove a commissioner because of the concerns that we have about the financial side of things. Is that where we are?”

Berry interjected: “I think we’re getting into the weeds here. You want to get into discussing the hospital budget and the management of their budget. And again, there’s nobody here to represent the hospital. And so all we’re doing is talking among ourselves, and I’m not sure we’re going to get anywhere because, once again, we’re getting into a management situation. I think we’re trying to micromanage, however you want to phrase it, whether you want to talk about the improper use of the budget and the improper whatever. We’re still getting into the business of the hospital, in my opinion, and I’m not sure the attorney agrees with that or not, so.”

Eichmann acknowledged he wasn’t totally versed on the complexity of the months-long controversies involving the hospital, but did remind council members that while they did have the authority to remove hospital commission members, law states that it has to be done “with cause.”

“And for-cause removal means there has to have been something that’s wrong that’s attributable directly to the commissioner, that the commissioner did in their duties,” he said. “It can’t just be that you don’t like them, or it can’t be that you don’t like their decisions.”

Later, Eichmann added that for-cause would be a violation of “some type of policy.”

“You have a much higher threshold than a discretionary decision on whether to remove somebody and replace them,” Eichmann said.

The council removed former commissioner Kent Turner, and Berry asked former member Barbara Dicks to step down after reports surfaced of violations of the Arkansas Freedom of Information Act and even alleged violations of the federal Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

“I think what Rachael is trying to say, we know that we have the power to remove a commissioner. We know that. We can do that,” Avanzino said. “However, what you just read, it says for cause, and for cause in this instance is the hospital’s budget that they are responsible for. And it is grossly mismanaged. That is what Rachael is talking about.”

“Is it mismanagement attributable to a commissioner,” Eichmann asked.

Avanzino responded: “To the entire commission, actually, and we can either start. getting rid of them from the bottom and go up or top and go down. But, we tried this once before and it was vetoed by the mayor. I digressed and let him have that. But, there’s been no change in anything. And when you say that we can remove a commissioner for cause, Rachael has presented an excellent example of forcause, but yet we’re told that we can’t use that to remove a commissioner.”

Eichmann later clarified the issue more.

“Ultimately, you do have the power to remove for cause, so I think that imposes upon a higher standard than removal just because of discretionary reasons or direction,” he said. “But ultimately, if you feel like that there’s [financial] mismanagement in the role, then that could be a route that you do. It might not be without controversy or issue, but that is the thing that you ultimately have. I’m hearing that you’re going to have a joint meeting on these very topics, and I think that’s a good thing, because I think then you can have, you can pose hard questions and you could look at and kind of evaluate the explanations and see for yourself what is being done and whether that’s satisfactory. But, you do have a commission that is appointed to make these decisions, and in your role it’s challenging because you don’t sit in oversight of of the hospital. They are a separate entity that has their own independent legal status.

“The role of the council is in the appointment of the commissioners, and ultimately in removal of the commissioner if they do something wrong. …” Avanzino asked: “So, is mismanagement of the budget, for cause?”

“I mean, mismanagement of the budget could be the basis for termination of an employee, so…” Eichmann said.

Bottom line, with the issues continuing, the budget workshop with the commission needs to happen soon, McClung said. Very soon, he added.

“I think time is of the essence, and that’s because … the pressure is on us as the council to try and help resolve some issues, to change direction if necessary, whatever is needed, but, we feel that there is problems in the financial end of it,” Mc-Clung said. “And I believe that, yes, that if this meeting comes about, and I hope very soon, I mean, quick, then a decision is going to be made by us at that point to look at things, unless they’ve got some real solid, substantial proof that what we’re looking at is not right, but we can only go off the numbers they give us, and that’s what numbers we are using.”

Berry told council members that Martin has been out of town and he would speak with her when she returned to discuss a meeting date.

“I would hope it’s next week… ,” McClung said of the workshop.

“I can’t say it’ll be next week, but I can say it will be as soon as possible,” Berry responded.

“Well, as soon as possible is really not a very good answer,” McClung replied. “I know you can’t do any better at this time, but I would like to have your commitment to push to have it done sooner than later.”

Berry added: “When I say I’ll have it done as soon as possible, I usually try to do it as soon as possible.”

HOSPITAL ORDINANCE CHANGE To better align with what is allowed under state law, the council voted to revise the city’s ordinance involving the hospital commission to require quarterly updates, and more, per council requests.

“I went to the city ordinances and I noticed every commission that has a budget are in there in the city ordinances, set up to to report to city council,” council member Steve Holifield said, using the city advertising and promotion, parks and cemetery commissions as examples that have in their ordinances required reporting to council.

“… The hospital does not have that in the ordinance,” Holifield said. “The hospital just has one line that says the hospital is created, and that’s pretty much it. But, all these other commissions, they have pages of this and that, rules, expectations that the city has for each commission. I don’t know if the hospital is exempt from doing this or do we need to go ahead and put an ordinance that says we want quarterly reports on budgets and what’s going on there? I don’t see why we don’t get those.

“So, I would like to make a proposal or a motion that we create an ordinance that brings the hospital commission just like CAPC’s, cemetery’s, and parks’ into giving us quarterly reports and any other reports that are requested by city council.”

Eichmann confirmed that state law allows what Holifield was requesting, and the commission voted to have a revised ordinance drawn up to be voted on at their next meeting.

AVOIDING LAWSUITS

Holifield added to the agenda a discussion about ways commissions can better avoid lawsuits being filed against the city.

“As I remind commissioners on different commissions, and I know we as city councilmen, part of our responsibility is to make sure we’re putting ourselves in a position so the city is not sued,” Holifield said. “The fewer lawsuits, the better for the city. So, if you look back at the history of the lawsuits and the most recent lawsuits, parks department, wrongful termination. CAPC, wrongful terminations. Now the hospital, wrongful terminations.

“… I wonder, is there some way we can put something in place that is an extra step when these commissions are taking disciplinary action, including termination that could, add another step that says: ‘Make sure you got all your I’s dotted and your T’s crossed.’ Can we create an ordinance?”

Holifield added that he’d like to see such an ordinance stipulate that “before a commission takes disciplinary action, including termination, that they have to run what they’re doing past city HR and city attorney.”

“Yes, I believe you could do that,” Eichmann said. “You could craft something to have that step like a legal review or an HR review.”

Holifield responded: “I think that’s a great idea. It’s an extra step. It is not going to stop everything, I know that. In a society where you can sue anybody for anything, you can have a mile-long liability release form and they can still sue you. But, I think if this happens, maybe it would catch a few of these lawsuits and say: ‘Well, we ran it by the attorney and he told us don’t do this over a text message.’ … So, at least it would help the city keep from getting so many lawsuits. I’m just putting that out there.”

McClung said he felt it should be a change in city policy, not necessarily an ordinance.

“I don’t think that would be something that would require an ordinance,” he said. “That’s something that they can implement immediately.”

Berry agreed.

“I’d like to take a look at it,” Eichmann said. “… Maybe policy is a more appropriate place for that.”

PUBLIC, ANONYMOUS COMMENTS Three people spoke during public comments, all former Eureka Springs Hospital employees continuing to voice concerns about recent controversies at the facility.

While names, and often addresses, of those speaking are usually required during comments, a anonymous letter was allowed to be read into record by someone only referred to as “Butterfly.”

Husband and wife Richard and Samantha Webb continued to address the council about the lack of action the city has taken regarding the issues.

“… Mr. Berry, how can you see and hear all the people that have came here to express and tell you how they have been wronged by these people and still defend the very people that caused it all?” asked Richard Webb. “These people have been doing this since 2023, mid-2023, and it’s been in every local newspaper and at least one state paper since November of 2024. But at the last city council meeting, you, Mr. Berry, and Ms. Martin stated you hadn’t seen or read the papers yet. My advice to you both is you might want to start reading them, especially with the positions you’re in and the terrible situation the hospital is in.

“Mr. Berry, while you’re looking up statutes to try to defend, try and defend these people that violated HIPAA laws, FOIA laws and many state and federal labor laws and hurt a lot of good people that just wanted to work, care and live, maybe you could look up a few that would protect and defend the good people hurt by it. We need a leader with integrity, not someone that protects criminals and ignores their victims, ignores the victims of their crimes. …” Samantha Webb said commission members continue to point fingers at the wrong people.

“… In a recent hospital commission workshop meeting, one of the commissioners even went so far as to blame the press for all the negative publicity the hospital has received in the last several months,” she said. “I say to you and that person, that’s like blaming the weatherman for the weather outside.

“By the way, when a new CEO comes aboard, will she be able to speak or will the CFO continue running the show? When will commission meetings go back to 6 p.m.? And where’s the $4.5 million, both federal and state? Inquiring minds want to know. This has TV mini-series written all over it. At the very least, this is a Lifetime movie, if ever I saw one….”

Former hospital employee Becky Burt also addressed the council, accusing human resources director and acting CEO Jodi Edmondson of delaying paperwork she needed for things such as Social Security and Medicare after her termination.

“I was fired unjustly, made-up accusations in January,” Burt said. “I decided to go ahead and retire. When I retired, when I filed for Social Security and Medicare, I had to get some paperwork signed by Jodi that stated the insurance that I had and when it expired. I emailed, that was in an email from the Social Security/ Medicare people. I emailed that to her. I forwarded it to her. She did not respond. Nothing. I waited a couple weeks. I sent it again, and she said, ‘I don’t do that.’ Well, I emailed her back and I said: ‘What part of employer must fill out do you not understand?’

“So she gets the form and emails it to me without her signature, anything filled out, so I went around her. She delayed the process. Luckily, I got it done before I was billed extra monthly for a late fee. I got it done before that. No thanks to her.”

Burt said another form needed to help her roll money over from a financial account to her Edward Jones account remains unsigned by Edmondson.

“On 4//11/25… my Edward Jones rep sent two emails to Jodi,” Burt said. “One was the email with a form … that was filled out and just needed Jodi’s signature, requesting my funds … to be transferred to the Edward Jones account, which I’ve had for over 20 years. Jodi has failed to respond to either of the emails sent that day, and it has been right now, right at a month now.

“Is she going to say she didn’t get them? I don’t know but my Edward Jones rep has not been sent an undeliverable message in her email. She has also tried to call Jodi on several occasions and has had to leave voicemails because the phone is never answered. … Jodi could even call me if she was unsure about something. She has my number.

“To have someone I don’t trust to be able to have enough control to delay financial transactions with other people’s money is ludicrous. Jodi should not have anything to do with anyone’s finances, especially those that she seems to have a vendetta against….”

The letter from “Butterfly” which was read by city clerk treasurer Ida Meyer, said the council had the situation at the hospital wrong.

“… David Avanzino, you mentioned at the last city council meeting that you have not heard anything different from other employees in support of Cynthia Asbury and Jodi Edmondson, so I decided to write to you today,” the letter read. “The reason that you or the city council have not heard any outward support is because we have seen the way that Cynthia and Jodi have been harassed by former employees, the city council, other commissioners, and the media. And it is not just them who have been harassed. Many other employees who live in the area have also been harassed about the hospital situation by friends and even at grocery stores. Cynthia has even been approached while with her family in front of her children.

“Is that what Eureka Springs City Council wants to promote? So, for my own safety and peace, I am choosing to remain anonymous for the time being. To put it very plain and simple, Cynthia and Jodi are not to blame for the toxic work environment that used to be in this hospital. You’re right, the hospital should not tolerate a toxic work environment and it doesn’t. The toxic environment was taken care of back in November of 2024. Cynthia and Jodi love this hospital and have just about killed themselves trying to save it. I’m sorry, but the city council will never fully understand what a feat it was for those two to get a 35-page plan of correction together in a short amount of time that they did, let alone how quickly they got any revisions done for the state as well.

“Add that on top of juggling the regular, already busy day-to-day task, plus hiring new staffs to fill the ones that have been abandoned, while also having to read and hear about how their names were being slandered at every turn. Most people have left, but these are two very strong women. We have a wonderful team here, and we all love this hospital. If we didn’t love working here, then we would have left especially when the times got hard. This hospital is healing, and as any healthcare worker will tell you, healing takes time and patience. So, please be patient with us. The hospital has improved so much since this all began. Give it time and very soon, all these positive changes will reflect out into our beautiful community.”

The author closed by explaining the glasses worn by Asbury that have the capabilities of audio and video recording, something that has become a recent topic during council meetings.

“The glasses that Cynthia wears are Meta RayBan smart glasses,” the letter read. “If she ever takes a video or a picture, a bright light in the corner of the glasses will flash. It is very obvious and not discreet at all. She uses them to talk on her phone. They are not much different than a pair of wireless earphones …”

NEXT MEETING CANCELED Because the date would fall on Memorial Day, council members voted to cancel their next regular meeting, scheduled for Monday May 26.

Barring any special called meetings, the council’s next meeting won’t be until Monday, June 9.

SUTHERLAND OK’D

Six months into the job, the city council officially approved Paul Sutherland as the city’s building inspector and code enforcement officer on a 6-0 vote.

APPOINTMENTS APPROVED

Also in unanimous approvals, Sidney Scott Price was OK’d to join the city’s planning commission and Board of Zoning Adjustment, David Carlisle was approved to stay on the hospital commission and Kolin Paulk was approved to remain on the CAPC.