It was a “Groundhog Day” type moment.

More back-and-forth. More disputed numbers. More heated moments.

And in the end? Another workshop.

A majority of the Eureka Springs City Council meeting held Monday, July 14, was spent discussing the months-long controversy surrounding the city hospital, its finances, commission and administration.

The highlights were back-and-forth — sometimes heated — exchanges between council member Rachael Moyer and hospital commission chair Sandy Martin regarding hospital finances, what numbers were supplied and when, and what they truly indicate.

Martin told council members that requested documents, including balance sheets and profit and loss statements from past years, were supplied in April and that the most recent numbers have been supplied in recent weeks.

“We come to you this evening to publicly hand over documents that have been in your possession over three months,” Martin said.

Moyer contended, however, that Martin was incorrect, and that some documents requested by the council for months hadn’t been suppled before Monday night’s meeting.

“… I know you are very seasoned at standing in front of the public, because you’re doing this now. You’re very seasoned at standing in the public and saying one thing, knowing that it’s not true,” Moyer said to Martin. “But you and I both know what financials were provided to us, never included a balance statement.”

In the end, regardless of what was provided and when, council members still are at odds with the hospital commission and administration about what the financials show, as was discussed at the June 23 council meeting when council members raised questions about what they describe as a $2 million discrepancy between the hospital’s bank balance and income statements.

Martin, meanwhile, has said the council is misinterpreting the numbers and there is no discrepancy.

To help clear up any questions regarding the numbers, the council voted at the June 23 meeting to have the hospital finances reviewed by an outside agency.

“We need a professional individual to look and do a review and a reconciliation and be very clear about where we are on the finances for the hospital, because I don’t want to risk losing such a wonderful asset and an economic driver for our community because we have egos involved. ” Moyer said at the June 23 meeting. “… On top of a lack of transparency, there is absolute misrepresentation on the part of the leadership of the [hospital] commission about what is actually happening. And I don’t know if it’s because they don’t know, or if it is because they’re hiding something. I don’t know what those reasons are. But, as long as the commission continues in the path that they’ve taken, it makes it look bad. So, there may be no malice at all, and I am an eternal optimist. And I hope that there is no malice and there’s nothing to find here. But we need to know.”

There apparently has not been any movement on getting an outside company to take a look at current hospital finances, and Mayor Butch Berry indicated at the July 14 meeting that such a review wasn’t on the table despite the council vote in the previous meeting.

“We get an annual audit from [Forvis Mazars],” Berry said at the July 14 meeting. “That’s your third party.”

Council member Susane Gruning responded: “That’s not what we were asking for.”

“Well, I’m not sure … whether you can ask for something [the commission] doesn’t have,” Berry said. “You’re requiring something that they already have: A third-party audit from Forvis.”

Gruning asked what happened to the vote to request a current review that was approved at the June 23 meeting.

“We’re talking about that now,” Berry said.

“I think what we were asking for was not an audit, but a review and a reconciliation of the financials,” Moyer said. “So, as we talked about in the meeting last time, we’ve got a bank balance statement that shows so much money has been spent. And then we have the P&L, which shows losses. Those two things over a year’s worth of time. You would expect the reported losses and the reduction in bank balances to match up, right? If not, that money is going to something else, perhaps liabilities, bills that are owed to someone else, but have not yet been paid so they’re not going to show up on a P&L. That’s why you look at a balance statement.

“That’s why we were asking for balance statements. That’s why it’s so important. At the last meeting, we passed a resolution to ask for a review and a reconciliation of the financials as they are now, so that someone who is professionally equipped, bonded and insured, third party, accountant, can look at the financials as they stand now, a P&L, a balance sheet, all of the primary financial reports and reassure us that the money is all accounted for, separate from an audit. That’s what we asked for.”

Again, Berry pointed to the annual Forvis audit.

“The audit assures us that the money is there,” the mayor said. “There’s been no misspending according to the audits from Forvis. Forvis is a highly recognized accounting company. That is your third party, and that’s the way that I believe the hospital’s looking at it. I am.”

Again, Moyer reminded Berry that a review of current finances was asked for, and approved, by the council at the June 23 meeting.

“That was something we asked for,” Moyer said.

Moments later, Martin chimed in, saying, “As the mayor said, our third party is Forvis. They are highly qualified. We’re not doing another separate audit. There’s no need to.”

$1.3 MILLION DIFFERENCE?

A quick review by the Times-Echo of documents provided to council members by the commission titled “balance sheet summary at 5/31/2025” and “Eureka Springs Hospital Commission Bank Balances 5/31/2025,” show numbers on the two documents that appear to differ by more than $1 million.

The balance sheet summary shows “cash and equivalents” of $6,925,445. Meanwhile, the financial report shows a bank balance as of May 31 of $5,551,554 — a difference of $1,373,891.

The Times-Echo emailed Martin on Tuesday, July 15, to ask for clarification of the two numbers.

“I want to make sure I have correct information,” Martin wrote in her response the next day. “Our CFO is out of the office and I’ll get back to you.”

‘FALSE AND SLANDEROUS ACCUSATIONS’ Martin didn’t hold back when she led off her hospital commission report.

“The hospital commission is here tonight, and there are several of us here to go on the record with some factual information about the Eureka Springs Hospital,” Martin said. “City council requested an array of documents, reports and information prior to our first joint workshop on April 1. These two notebooks that Butch has next to him are all of the workshop documents that the hospital commission prepared and were sent to you, to the council, by email prior to April 1.

“The printed information by the mayor is just volume 3 of the April 1, 2025, workshop documentation, and it includes all monthly financial reports from 2023 and ’24 as well as January and February 2025. March and April were submitted in May of ’25. Also printed are the Forvis annual independent audit of the hospital enterprise fund which includes annual cash flow, revenue and balance sheets for the years ’21, ’22 and ’23.

“On June 9 of 2025 council moved to have the hospital commission provide monthly financial reporting of P&L, balance sheet, cash flow statements to the city council. You already were in possession of all of this information. We do not do monthly cash flow. That information is included in our P&L. Annual cash flow statements are done by Forvis and contained in the documents you have already received on April 1.”

Martin said the council received May 2025 financial information in the council packet at its June 23 meeting.

“On June 23, the council motioned to demand financials labeled in the resolution for the years ’24 and ’25. You were already in possession of this information,” she said. “We come to you this evening to publicly hand over documents that have been in your possession over three months.”

Martin said thumb drives provided to council members include income statements from January 2023 to May 2025 as well as recent balance sheets.

“It’s been stated from this council table that it is the lack of transparency from the hospital commission that is creating the entire issue,” Martin said. “For the record, we have been compliant and provided all of the information that council has requested of us, not once, but several times, and now publicly again. The information contained on the thumb drive that you all have been given and here in hard copy are the hospital financials certified by the hospital commission and audited by Forvis.

“It has been stated on numerous occasions at the city council table that we ‘are not accountants or CPAs,’ but the people who prepare and audit the certified financials are indeed accountants and CPAs. Please, council, when referring to the Eureka Springs Hospital financials, use these certified financial numbers in vernacular. Do not substitute cherry-picked numbers and dates and vernacular that you extrapolate upon as though they are factual. The numbers you have been declaring as factual simply are not. It makes for great headlines and a cover story, but they are misleading, dangerous, and have led to false and slanderous accusations.”

Martin again stressed that $2 million was not missing from the hospital finances, something that was discussed at length at the June 23 council meeting.

“The council prepared a chart that led two council members to declare $2 million missing,” she said. “That was a bank balance statement. It showed the difference in the starting August ’24 balance and the ending May ’25. This is not $2 million missing. This is $2 million spent between those nine months. Only use the certified hospital financials, please, that you have been provided in their entirety and their context.”

Martin also disputed assertions made by Moyer that hospital numbers, including patients, are higher during the months when Eureka Springs has an influx in tourism.

“The hospital is not a tourist attraction. Please do not overlay tourism models on health care,” she said. “They are simply apples and oranges. There is no season for accidents, illnesses, emergencies or health care needs. The hospital is 24/7/365 and we don’t turn anyone away. As has been spoken at this table a number of times, healthcare administration is a highly specialized field of understanding. The hospital and its finances are unique, which is why our attorney, our technology department, and our auditor are all recognized healthcare specialists within their professions.

‘… The commission and staff are future-focused. We have a highly qualified and energetic CEO starting in a couple of weeks joining a highly qualified staff of healthcare and administrative professionals. We are moving forward with infrastructure improvements, telehealth services, and acquiring a non-emergency transport van that will also serve as a mobile medical van that will be critical for our healthcare delivery in the future. We are only focused on making sure that the hospital thrived. If you really give a damn about the hospital and providing healthcare to our citizens and visitors, you will join us in our efforts.”

‘NOT COMPLETELY FACTUAL’

Moyer quickly responded to Martin’s presentation, leading to a colorful back and forth exchange between the pair.

“I feel compelled to comment,” Moyer said. “Your presentation was quite impressive; however, it’s not completely factual. The information, the financials, let me just start by saying first, I deeply care about our hospital. I care deeply about our community. I know everyone at this table does. At one point, the council and the commission had a conversation about working together and we showed good faith support in trying to help the commission in whatever capacity we could. We were immediately shut out of consistent financial information.”

Martin interjected: “Not true.”

“It’s absolutely true. That is absolutely true,” Moyer said.

Moyer went on to say that while Martin assured the council that all information requested had been handed over months ago, that was inaccurate. However, Moyer said she was happy to hear that the thumb drives provided did include everything.

“… Now, whatever has happened in the past is fine. I am very happy and thankful to the commission, to the mayor, to have this,” Moyer said of the thumb drive. “… I am so excited to see that information so that I can understand what’s going on. My intention this entire time has been to shed light where there wasn’t. So, I appreciate the commission finally coming forward and providing some transparency, because now more than ever, as you said, it is very important. Transparency in government is of utmost importance. So thank you for this, and I look forward to looking at all of the documents that this body has requested of the commission since April of this year.”

Martin again interjected that balance statements from 2022 and 2023, through February 2024 were given to the council on April 1.

“… I got emails, and I’m telling you that they were not in the email,” Moyer said. “But, I don’t want to have a public disagreement with you because you and I both know what we had.”

“Yes, ma’am, we do,” Martin said.

MORE QUESTIONING OF NUMBERS

Later in the meeting on an agenda item specifically to discuss the hospital finances, Moyer again questioned Martin on finance numbers.

“Since we have you here, can you tell us where there’s such a big difference between the reported loss on the P&L and the balance on the bank accounts?” Moyer said. “Because, it’s like $2.5 million.”

Martin responded: “And you forgot what I said earlier?”

“Let’s be respectful to each other please,” Moyer replied.

“That chart, those are two different views of financials,” Martin said. “The bank balance is the bank balance.

“… The P&L shows profit and loss. What’s missing is the information in between. All of that is contained in the P&L. The P&L, you see the cash in, you see the cash out, you see where it is. There are a lot of other adjustments that go into it like delayed payments, deferred revenue that’s coming in, whether we pay a large check but expense it on a monthly basis. There is no $2 million missing. Those are two completely different views of financials.”

Moyer said she understood the difference in the two documents.

“That’s true, they show a different perspective from the financials and the balance sheet would also show those liabilities, et cetera,” Moyer said. “All those things can balance out, but they’re not currently, well, at least I’m not sure because we’ve not seen a balance sheet yet. Hopefully we can look at that, but I understand exactly what each of those things provide.”

Martin responded: “And you have all the information you need to review it.”

“I hope so, but I thought since you were here that you could answer the question,” Moyer replied.

ATTORNEY WEIGHS IN, WORKSHOP PLANNED Justin Eichmann, one of two lawyers currently serving in the role of city attorney, said the city would need to prepare a Request for Proposal for qualified companies to take an independent look at current hospital finances.

Eichmann said he’d be willing to help draft such a request, something that wasn’t mentioned when the topic was first voted on by the council at the June 23 meeting.

“I can’t speak on behalf of the whole council, but that is what we voted on, this resolution, at the last council meeting,” Gruning said.

Eichmann responded: “… I would assume you’re talking about that being funded from city general fund, right? So that would then be up to you all on how much you want to spend on the scope and that sort of thing. But that would be how we would need to start that process. I’m happy to help with that to get that going.”

Moments later, council member Steve Holifield said instead of taking any action he suggested the council review the documents Martin provided.

“Do we want to look at what they’ve given us on the thumb drive before we proceed with this?” Holifield said. “This may answer all our questions.”

Council member Terry McClung agreed, also suggesting that the council have a workshop to discuss the numbers.

“I will suggest this because this is complicated and I’m sure what’s on here is to some degree complicated, and I think it would be good for us to take this home and look at it, but I think we need to have the council have a workshop where we can project it on a big screen here and so we’re all on the same page with it,” Mc-Clung said. “Does that make sense? And then we will all know what we’re talking about.”

Council member Harry Meyer said he wasn’t optimistic about learning anything new.

“Sandy told us that we’ve already got all this information, that she sent it to us once before,” Meyer said. “So, I think that if we have hopes of finding more information from this thumb drive, we’re not going to get it.”

McClung said he would like the workshop scheduled “within a week.”

“Let’s see if we can get that done,” Berry said.

“Let’s not let any moss grow on it,” Mc-Clung replied.

As of Wednesday afternoon, no workshop had been scheduled.

‘LAB IS OPERATING’

To dispute something said by Gruning earlier in the meeting, Martin said the lab at the hospital is up and running.

“The lab is operating, fully staffed,” Martin said.

Gruning responded: “I just heard today [blood] is still going to Berryville, and maybe Harrison.”

OTHER COUNCIL BUSINESS

In other business the council approved a temporary entertainment district for the Rotary Club’s Annual Oktoberfest, which will be held Oct. 18 between city hall and The Auditorium on Main Street.

The council also approved having a public hearing at 6 p.m. at the beginning of the Monday, Aug. 11, council meeting to discuss the possibility of raising wastewater rates.

The council also unanimously voted to appoint Willie Daniels to fill a vacant seat on the hospital commission.